Assessing America's Counterterrorism Capability
Senate


Susan Collins, R-Maine, Committee chairperson, Statement before the Committee

Establishing a National Counterterrorism Center and creating the position of the NID

Committee will recommend how IC will look in future, with legislation reporting out of committee by October, 2004.

Improvements made post 9/11, weaknesses, and future changes

Terrorist Threat Integration Center is a new center and the 9/11 Commission's recommendation is a "super TTIC".  Must get resources and priorities in the agencies that collect intelligence.

Congress must clearly define the authority and parameters of the proposed new center recommended by the Commission.


Sen. Lieberman, D-Conn., Minority Leader of the Committee

President has embraced the NID and NCTC, but it appears the implementation being considered will not have the clear command authority and budget control that the Commission.

Congress needs to work with the White House in filling in the details of the NCTC.

Uncoordinated watchlists, failure to connect the dots, lack of information sharing.

NCTC designed to integrate information on all terrrorist threats to our homeland from any of the 15 agencies in this one place to stop terrorists.  Not only a fusion center, but a command center.

NCTC, a unified "combat" command similar to the Pentagon's approach to diverse military services.

Commanders in their own rights in the War on Terrorism.



Intelligence Agency's Representatives Panel

John Brennan, Director, Terrorist Threat Integration Center

On 8/2/2002 - President will establish the NCTC per the Commission's request.  TTIC was a first step post 9/11, " a natural extension of TTIC which was stood up January 2003.  

TTIC has direct access/connectivity to 20 computer networks in the IC and outside.
Real time collaboration between analysts who sit side-by-side, piecing togetherscattered pieces of the terrorism puzzle.

Also NRC and HHS and DOE

CIA's Counterterrorism Center and FBI's Counterterrorism Division will be integrated into TTIC shortly.

Strategic:  TTIC works with the IC and briefs the President and other policy makers.All info fused to produce a comprehensive view to the President.

TTIC should become he basis for the NCTC.
Together we will need to create the details for implementation of NCTC without adversly effecting the current operations of TTIC.




John Pistole, Executive Assistant Director for Counterterrorism and Counterintelligence , Federal Bureau of Investigations

Fundamentally transform FBI counterterrorism, modified our priorities and equipment.
All terrorism related matters allocated resources before resoruces can be allocated to any other priorities.

Increased Special Agents:  111%, intelligence analysts 86%, linguists: 117%
New or improved operational units:
Elevated CT intelligence to a program level
Added expertise in analysis and added a new career path.  Intelligence Officer's certification, and will be a prerequisite to higher level promotions in the agency.




Lieutenant General Patrick M. Hughes, Assistant Secretary for Information Analysis of the Department of Homeland Security

DHS will support the NCTC and the NID to defeat terrorists and prevent terrorism in the U.S.

DCI chairs a meeting each evening, of agencies from all 15 agencies.

Alliances  with local law enforcement and DHS.

Partnership with FBI is critical and successful and we must expand this further

Clear, clean, short lines of command and control.




Phillip Mudd, Deputy Director, Counterterrorism Center, CIA


Questions:

Sen Collins:  Mr. Brennan

Q:  Federal government was not ideally configured to deal with terrorist threat.
If you were to structure it, what you recommend?

A:  Opportunity to understand all the parts of U.S. government that comprise the intelligence mission.  Over the years, individual initiatives in individual agencies, but not in a fused and integrated manner for the entire I.C.  Just like Goldwarter-Nichols revamped the military, we need to understand the IC and create legislation to support that IC wide architecture, including mutual dependencies and growing elements.  We haven't taken the time to step back and build a system of systems.

Q:  NID? 
A:  A person on top, but not quite like the Commission has defined it.

Sen Collins:  Mr. Mudd

Q:  How are disputes - who makes the final call in disputes over intelligence tasking.
For instance moving satellite at CIA request, and DoD does not want it moved -- who decides?
A:  We support others in this case -- DoD for active combat zone, CIA runs clandestine authority, FBI does the decision on
Q:  Who makes the call?  Who decides?

Hughes

2002 Gilmore Commission - center would be responsible for planning
Should the NCTC have an operational role in CT?
A:  I believe the idea is to have enough planning expertise especially at strategic level
to interface to operational planning.
Q:  With yoru years...
A:  Operational entities must take part in the operational planning, however at a strategic level, I support a planning role, but not at the actual operational level.

Mr. Pistole

A:  Overall planning to look to find gaps, coordination, etc., "We've identified a gap, we think the FBI should take steps to solve that gap" and then let the FBI to actually address solving the gap.

Mr. Brennan

Analysis maintins its  independence and integrity.  Careful of authority and operational assignment of agencies to be involved in actual operations. 

Sen. Lieberman:

Let me give you an impression -- you don't fully embrace the 9/11 Commission recommendations -- which would deprive you of some of your agency's independence.s
Commission said stovepipes, no info sharing, and no one in charge.  And we are told that while improved, the problems still exist.

Q:  NID who is in charge by giving budgetary conttrol of consituent agencies.
How do you feel about that.

Mr. Mudd:

I embrace the Commision- Question between coordination and direction -- umbrella ideas are good -- We need to keep strucutres that allow us to operate in days, hours or even minutes. -- There are some things that make it hard to move fast, let's avoid them.

NID could have the authority to reprioritize a satellite

Mr. Hughes: 

A:  I too support NID idea -- I think it is improvement to have a central authority over all IC, but I don't see that the problem of disputing -

Speed, precision are vital.

Mr. Pistole:

A:  I think the key is that the NID has the authority as well as the access and confidence of the President, and the NID be accountable.  If delineated in budgetary terms or some other way to

Mr. Brennan: 

A:  I fully endorse authority and budget -- Congress must establish how that is accomplished.

Programming decisions, for instance of a satellite movemnt, today rests in the hand of the DDCI in the DCIs office.

Mr. Pistole:

Integration and fusion of resources beyond what exists today. The NID Deputy  be my current boss.  The Deputy would remain a coordinator and have the resources in his speciality to make things happen.

Sen Coleman:

We are here at a time of war, and a macro change in intelligence.  The 9/11 Commission was an indictment of the status quo.  If we were to suffer an attack, there would be another commission -- would there be another comdemnation of the status quo.

Tell me today -- what is that you need from us.

Mr. Brennan:

I wouldn't like to happen is to

The sytesm works today better than it ever has.  Can it work better?  You betcha. 
Moving precipitously to make changes rapidly

Mr. Pistole:

FBI changes collection, analsyis and dissemination -- wholesale changes since 9/11 - a clear change - what do we need?  Defining the lanes for each agency -- how does that come down to actual operations - so that we know


Hughes:  We are a post 9/11 chagne -- Connection between the federal government in the intelligence area, and the state and local municipality - bigggest single change that has occurred and we should be proud.

Mudd:  As the advesary has changed, we must change.  We are toe to toe with them today.

This is a war of people -- every persons makes a difference.  I fear that there will be a sense that after the current leaders in Islamast terror are gone that we can let our guard down.  We cannot.

Coleman: 

Two question - the way of the present structure speedy enough and 2) with the single NID head, how would the minority view get to the policy makers.


Mr. Mudd:  My job is not particulary to dessminate info to local

Mr. Pistole:

Any actionable info results in someone taking action to follow up on.  That happens through the current process -- they are no impediments.

Mr. Brennan:

Who is in charge of what?  You must design - architectually - the means for the information to flow up to the policy makers.  Still configured in the old ways, and we need to look at that total architecture.


Sen. Durbin:

Mr. Brennan you gave praise of TTIC, you were Stood up when?

on 1 May 2003, but you still have a "pick-up team".

Durbin: There are some fundamental barriers at TTIC - assignees from other agencies FBI and DHS.  Hoped to 300 analysts, have less than half that you hoped for -- using other agency's people.

CIA analysts must request FBI agent to check his database and report if he found anything.  I don't think this is the way to protect the U.S.

Brennan:  CIA can access FBI databases, your impression is incorrect.  We are able to search integrated in multiple access across the multiple systems.  Not integrated completely.

There needs to be a national architecture, in addition an information technology technology.  Congress has funded disparate systems.

Durbin:  What has stopped this?  Has Congress.

Brennan:  Senator, the systems are so complicated.  The Commission fails to offer the specifics to solve the technological problem.


Sen. Spectre:

I disagree with the double hatting...of the deputies and certainly not double hatting the top intelligence officer.

Gen Hughes, you were the head of DIA.

Q:  Could the NID run the intelligence community without budget authority.
A:  People should be fungeable across the intelligence.  A CIA officer can be assigned to DIA



Sen. Hartuk:

Previous attempts have been made to form a directorate of intelligence for DHS, but not included in the Department of Homeland Security that was implemented.

What specifically are your not able to accomplish now, that NCTC will?

Brennan:  Insure that we build upon the TTIC to expand it and bring the integration/orchestration to a higher level.

Pistole:  Instutitionalizes the capabilites and operations we are currently engaged in.  Enhances the information sharing.

Hughes:  Strategy for better action rather than dispersed -- centrally acted upon, achive synergey

Mudd:  First we need coordination of action - 2nd we can fuse intelligence sources in one place.

Sen. Hartuk: My concern is that staffing NCTC will rob people from other agencies, we need the right people at the right time.

What is the current recruitment situation and will NCTC

Brennan:  We receive analysts from other agencies assigned to us - any redundancy should be intentional not unintentional.  Last thing I want to do is deprive the other agencies.

Pistole:  Cadre of analysts and linguists should be close to the operations people.  Yes, there is an active competition for analysts.

Hughes:  There are fears that the competition -- there are very few experienced people in the domestic area.

Mudd:  Broad government has a limited pool of expertise -- you are correct, there is a relatively small pool of qualified person -- also not that it is a multi-year process - five to ten years to REALLY have a weapon to degrade the enemy in our analysts.


Sen Shelby:

Some of has have proposed the NID with total control and that includes budget.  You've made a lot of progress.  We must make certain that the changes we propose architectually, will accomplish the goals we set out to accomplish.  What's the number one problem in the Intelligence Community.  Is it the lack of gathering informaiotn, is the the lack of analyzing the information or is it the lack of sharing the information. 

What will the NCTC be in the end.  Will it be an organization feeding on the 15 agencies.
What would the CIA have if we were to create a big thing - a counterterrorsim center
The biggest problem is people - finding the people to do the job at the covert level.

Responsibility to support our operators and to reflect what we know to the President.  TTIC can help us fuse the other infomation.  The center [CTC] I have now controls the operations -- the vision we have for the future is a place that can coordinate between other agencies.

The fusion mission is critical - we cannot conduct the fusion in the CIA ourselves. 

General Hughes:
 
Shortage of people who have experience and training is our biggest issue.

Pistole:

Recruting the right people.  We don't have problems, we have opportunites to build character.  We have thousands of ongoing terrorist investigations.

We need the cadre...

Brennan:

The concept is a shortage of people is a relative one.  You need to be able to make maximum usage of the peole that you have.

Q:  What will be the future of terrorism analysis if the NCTC is operational. 

Brennan:  TTIC is not part of the CIA exactly, already .  Needs to be a center of gravity of analysis, assign responsibility to different areas, legislation needs to make those authories clar.

Mr. Pistol, what additional authorities will be needed (beyond the Patriot Act) - to bridge the gap between foreign and domestic.

Pistole:  One issue is that we need administrative subpeona authority to get data.

Mr. Brennan, what can you tell us from your experience of setting up a center like this.

Brennan:  How complex it is, very very complicated and difficult -- take into account the entire architecture for the entire IC -- we fund

Sen Gaden:

What does the NCTC bring that TTIC does not have now.

Director Brennan:  Enables and empowers -- will be further enhanced when FBI and CIA will be integrated --

Why hasn't this move in be completed?

Brennan: Requires a physical facility -- TTIC is there now, FBI and CIA have yet to move in.

When will it occur?

Brennan:  Just a matter of buildout of the areas.  By the end of September. 

Pistole:  CIA is already moving in,

Why not move into space that is adequate to accomodate the space?

no answer.

We have 15 agencies -- are there any of those 15 that could be consolidated or merged?

Hughes:  NCTC will be a reflection of that to some degree.  Operational identity and facility is unique and I have thought about

I would say that the agencies have by law certain responsiblities

Brennan:  Broad array of responsiblities and agencies -- we have an opportunity -- its worthwhile looking at how we might organize -- perhaps the discussion of the NID responsibilities

What today needs to be improved?

Hughes: Strive for  Interoperability among us.  That goal should remain in mind.


Sen. Notenburg:

I am not for delay, but I am for thoroughness.   Let's not  move so quickly that we  make a mistake.

Should we  look at a fixed term  of ten year to  move across the administration.

Pistole:  It is a benefit to FBI

Mudd:  Term is not important but must have the confidence of the President -- The President should be allowed to pick someone whom he is comfortable with.  However, ten years is too long for a DCI, I don't think you could ask for that.

Is a cabinet officer the right approach?  Should the Congress be involvied in

Mudd:  I don't want the NID to be in the White House -- need to keep an air gap between the White House

Brennan:  I agree - needs to be independent

Hughes:  I agree unvarnished and unbiased.


Sen. Carper:

Good ideas in your minds, the bad news is that the ideas are in your minds, our job is to get it out of your minds and turn it into legislative form.

I look for areas of consensus to help me assess the Commission's recomendation.

I would like to hear from your -- if you do nothing else do this and if you do anything, don't do that.

Mudd:  Authorities - directs versus coordinates -- how do you structure - controls or coordinates.

Hughes:  No simple answer -- complicated recommendations from the Commission and takes some time and some care to get it right -- some of this should be REALLY thought through way. Form should follow function -- the statement has stood the test of time - the form could change the function - so we need to be careful to make sure we dont do that

Pistole: Be precise - ambiguity creates a vaccuum and we try to fill it on our own and waste time doing so.  Delinieate responsibilities and authorities.

Brennan: Got it right at 100,000 foot level.  What should happen, but with should comes a number of how do you do its.  Lots of precision required -- all this scholarship just skims the surface of a lot of complex issues.

Levin:  Question on Deputies -- three different agencies.  Deputies in their own agencies -- someone suggested this just isn't workable.  -- Doubled hatted deputies.

Pistole:  FBI Deputy Director of Intelligence -- if they have their own job of running their organzation as well as reporting to the NID is problematic. 

Levin:  Give me a question we haven't asked that we should have asked

Are the recommendations of 9/11 doable in totality -- I don't think they are doable if we took them

Pistole:  I disagree somewhat -- the 9/11 Commission's recomendations are a blueprint, we need to build on that.

Hughes:  Have we considered carefully the facts that we can understand and the consequences

What are the things we have learned from 9/11.


Sen Levin:

What are the shortcomings in TTIC that the NCTC

Overall framework...

Do not have sufficient analysts and technology

Now you have them, what is next that you need.

Brennan: On the path.

We are in the process of doing...

Levin:  Other than process

In terms of the assessment piece not operational -- assessment side  The major failure was assessment Anything the NCTC will provide that you are already not working on in the assessment area.

Brennan: Joint operational planning

Sen Levin:  Each of you tell us - whether -- what are the two top differences between your individual opinion than the 9/11 (other than not putting the NID in the executive branch office of the President).

Hughes:  Three Deputies - should be four, not dual hatted, yes.

Mudd:  NID structure page 413 -- not workable -- too defuse an effort, don't buy the dual hatted. Everything we [IC] do should not be in one center. Everything paramilitary recommendation should not be in DoD

Pistole:  Dual hatting of Deputies, don't agree.

Brennan:  Structure will not work.  What you want CIA to do, all source analysis under out of CIA, and CIA should get back to its roots.should be clandestine operations activities, espionage, covert actions.

TTIC has the primary responsibility for intelligence analysis for the IC.  Took a year to get that agreement.

Who receives your assessments

Brennan:  We have a top secret dessimination

Do they go to the DCI? Does he have final authority -- does not have the role in deciding in the assessment .  Would the NCTC operate in a similar manner.

Brennan:  Yes, the TTIC has not required the approval of the DCI - we have been independent -- It is my belief that the NCTC will also operate in that matter - the NCTC Director should remain independent of the NID.


2nd Panel.



Philip Zelikow, Executive Director , National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States

"Today we do not have a government capable of implementing the global strategy we recommend. 

Confronting a 21st century kind of threats, we recommended a 21st century set of strategies, and we were compelled to look at a 21st century approach to government."


Sen. Specter:

Double hatting: How can you have the Deputy in Defense being told the NID wants and then the enevitable.  The problem of serving two masters..

Zelikow:  The Director of the NSA has two masters -- the problem is how you weight them.

Does the NID have a chance of success without control of budget?

Kojm:  It is problematic without having the budget control.

How do you structure intelligence agency so that the DoD for instance is not adversly effected?

Zelikow: Avoid disrupting the operational lines of control


Sen. Collins:

Had difficulty in getting the resources, particulary in DoHS is problematic.

Young and inexperienced - what would be different about the NCTC.

The joint activity would be able to reduce redundancy -- i.e. TTIC relies heavily upon analysts and linguists from other agencies.

Would you elaborate on the operational role in the NCTC.

Zelikow:  Two things - we studied the 9/11 story, Gilmore could not.  We spent a lot of time how the systems work today.  There is no joint integrated plan to hunt bin Laden, there is no joint person in charge to update the plan, allocate resources.

Paramilitary operations:  Why did you come to the conclusion

Zelikow:  The country cannot afford two Fort Braggs and Camp Perrys.


Sen. Lieberman:

Comment:  Budget Authority

Language about action, jointness, planning.